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    #16
    Bah. And humbug.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Originally posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Originally posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

    Comment


      #17
      I canít believe the problems Iím having with getting a coolant sensor that works properly. The rest of this post is from an email to Ford back in January (TL,DR - two sensors from a Ford dealer measured defective and the dealer was useless):

      I am writing about a problem with a defective part purchased from a Ford dealer parts department that will remain anonymous at this point. The part is a coolant sensor with part number SW-5174 for my 2000 Grand Marquis, though I understand it is used in various other vehicles too. Unfortunately, the new part had the same abnormal resistance readings at low temperatures as the original part on my car that went bad. When I returned the part, they did not take any step to verify the defect or pursue a warranty claim (contrary to my understanding) but rather just ordered another as a courtesy. I brought an ohmmeter to the parts counter when picking up the second one and was very disappointed to see the second part also had an abnormal resistance reading right out of the bag.

      One big concern for me (which makes Ford look absolutely ridiculous) is that they claim they have no way to verify if such a simple part is good unless it is on the vehicle. The service manual includes checking the resistance as a diagnostic step and provides a table with resistance values, so checking the part off the vehicle is really easy. I donít know what is more idiotic, a Ford parts department not knowing how easy it is to measure the resistance of a simple part to verify a defect or repeatedly being told that such a thing is beyond their capability.

      At that point, they were understandably not willing to obtain another part without going through the warranty process, which I was expecting to take a week or two. When I called today, I was told it typically takes a month or two. Further, the part was apparently not sent anywhere for inspection but might be if requested. And it turns out that if the warranty is approved, I would simply get my money back and still have to take a chance ordering yet another part from them with no guarantee that it will be okay upon arrival.

      For such a simple and relatively inexpensive part, the experience has been horrible. I doubt there is anything further you folks might be able to do in this case, but I just had to express my frustration. Fortunately, I donít drive much, and my car will still start with the original part after lots of cranking if the temperature is not too cold, but Iím in a situation that I simply should not be in. I would be interested in hearing what you folks have to say about this situation.

      2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
      mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

      Comment


        #18
        The rest of this post is the seemingly useless response from Ford, to which I did not bother responding (feel free to skip it):

        Thank you for contacting the Ford of Canada Customer Relationship Centre. My name is Marisa and I have received your email on January 5th regarding your experience at a Ford dealership.

        We appreciate you taking the time to share your recent service experience at a Ford dealership and regret the circumstances for which you contacted us.

        Customers such as you, provide us with valuable dealer information to consistently achieve high levels of quality customer service. We regret to hear about the unpleasant events that you described which tainted your service experience. We believe every customer should be treated courteously, professionally, and with integrity in all instances. We regret any treatment that fell short of your expectations.

        Please keep in mind, Ford dealerships are independently owned and operated, therefore we are unable to intervene in workmanship issues. Therefore, we can provide your feedback to the Management Team as we believe they would also appreciate knowing the details of your dissatisfaction. However, due to insufficient information provided, we are unable to adequately provide feedback. Please provide us the name of servicing dealership to properly submit feedback.

        We understand the importance of your vehicle in your life and the subsequent challenges this part is causing you. We encourage you to remain in contact with your Ford dealership for any updates regarding obtaining a new part.

        We value your business and again regret for any frustration or inconvenience you may have experienced because of this situation.

        Thank you for contacting Ford of Canada.

        2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
        mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

        Comment


          #19
          I managed to find only one aftermarket sensor in my area, and it measured defective in the same way as the rest. (I think they were all somewhere around the 6kohm range when they should have been something like 5-10x that.) I have no reason to believe that there is an issue with my meters, though I have not entirely ruled out the possibility in light of the freaky nature of getting three defective parts in a row.

          The mystery furthered today when I received a Ford part through Amazon. This one measured in the 2kohm range on each of two meters, which seems really bizarre.

          One possibility that came to mind was that defective ones that measured bad over the years were simply put back on the shelf, but that would only account for the aftermarket part that came in a box and not the Ford parts that came in sealed bags. I can’t imagine that these sensors are in any way time sensitive, so I would be really stumped if they had actually measured okay when they were made.

          Anyone have any idea what might be going on?
          Last edited by IPreferDIY; 09-09-2022, 04:42 PM.

          2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
          mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

          Comment


            #20
            Part rot from sitting on the shelf for 10+ years?

            Sometimes new old stock isn't that great.

            Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
            rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
            Originally posted by gadget73
            ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
            Originally posted by dmccaig
            Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

            Comment


              #21
              You're the electronics expert, so your guess would be better than mine. I have no idea what thermistors are made of or how they are made, but it seems they are destined to fail in a certain direction. Dunno if that is deliberate or just the nature of the beast.

              2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
              mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

              Comment


                #22
                I'm having unbelievable bad luck with this issue. Rather than try another local Ford sensor, I went with an aftermarket sensor from the U.K., and it measured defective too. Here are photos showing the readings from two different meters:

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                That one and at least two of the Ford ones had relatively recent dates, so degradation over time seems to be ruled out. Maybe I'll have better luck with a part from China.

                2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                Comment


                  #23
                  I see... you need to measure pin to pin, not pin to case. Pin to case is only for the single wire sensors.

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Apparently not. Most, if not all, of the prior sensor readings were done pin to pin, and I started doing pin to case at some point with the same result. Doing pin to case was easier for photographing, and I just confirmed that the result is the same for pin to pin. The only thing I can think of at this point besides some kind of widespread manufacturing defect is having some kind of magical force field around me that causes coolant sensors (but not my air filter box sensor) to read bad.

                    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Wait... you have the meter on 200K ohm setting. This means that is reading 19K to 23K (depending on meter). I know a LOT of meters that don't move the decimal point properly on this one setting. It's very confusing. And if it is the case that it's over 20K (OL or -1 on 20K setting), this is close enough. Remember... these sensors are not very accurate. They can vary +/- 15% and be perfectly serviceable.

                      Now, this range is very broad on closed loop settings. If you boil some water and measure it after a brief soak (leave the electrical out of the water as much as you can for ease of use), it should be less than 3 ohms. You need to account for the wire resistance of the meter at this point as well and subtract that from your reading. If it's not around 3K ohms and remains in the 20K ohm area, you indeed have a bad sensor.

                      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                      Originally posted by dmccaig
                      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I had confirmed some of the readings at a lower setting, and the first defective sensor was confirmed with my scanner reading the PCM, so I doubt it's a decimal point issue. Also, I tried that latest sensor in the fridge and freezer and did get higher resistances, but even in the freezer it was only about 40kohm, which shows on the chart as being well over 10 degrees C. The U.K. seller provided a refund without requiring me to send the sensor back, so I will take the plastic off and try it in boiling water for the helluvit. I've ordered one from China, and if that one doesn't work out, I guess I'll try a U-pull yard.

                        2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                        mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Bah. Yeah. That's amazingly bad luck with parts. If the china one doesn't ring out with the meter, I'd be tempted to just try one you have on hand and see if it works.

                          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                          Originally posted by gadget73
                          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                          Originally posted by dmccaig
                          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                          Comment

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