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Major fuel headache - '87 351 Police Interceptor

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    Major fuel headache - '87 351 Police Interceptor

    Here's the background, car sputtered out and died on the way home from work. Won't turn over. Got it towed about a mile back to my house. We disconnected the fuel line near the carb, before the filter, and while cranking got zero gas coming out. So we put a new fuel pump on the engine, and still have the same problem.

    Now here's where I'm confused.
    It has 2 fuel lines going from the tank to the pump, and then one outlet line from the pump to the carb. I'm assuming it has 2 lines due to having the interceptor package in case one fails or for high speeds or something? It's not a return type system, unless I am mistaken? Can anyone confirm?

    Also, my dad seems to think there is an electric pump in the tank, but that makes absolutely no sense to me and every tech article I've read online and the chilton's manual from the library all have zero indication of an electric pump being in the tank for this particular vehicle. There is a 2 wire connector near where the 2 lines come out of the tank, but I would assume those are for the sending unit for the fuel gauge on the dash.
    Can anyone confirm?

    My next guess would be a collapsed line, although since it has 2 I kinda doubt it. One line is corroded near where it comes out of the tank, however it is bone dry and does not leak any gas. Idk if maybe it's sucking in air if that could cause this problem. Or maybe a clogged fuel pick-up sock thing in the tank.

    Any advice/suggestions ?
    '87 Vic LTD

    #2
    wait, won't turn over as in the engine doesn't spin (even without firing/starting) at all? That's not a fuel problem. That's either a starting system problem (starter or wires to it) or a catastrophic engine failure where it's seized and will not move.


    The carbureted 351s do not have an in-tank pump.

    One of the lines from the tank is for excess fumes, it's part of the emissions system. While it being cut or otherwise damaged is a bad idea it would not leak liquid gas as a result of failure, generally speaking. It carries evaporated gasoline only.

    85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
    160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
    waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

    06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

    Comment


      #3
      If the car died and then would not turn over it sounds like you are having 2 different problems. Is the battery dead? Is the alternator charging?

      There is no electric pump in the tank, just the sending unit.

      Are you positive you have gas in the tank? I never noticed the two lines coming off the pump instead of one...however I believe if i remember correctly there is the primary fuel line going into the tank, and one for the EVAP system. Someone else on here will know what the second line going into the pump is for, i just cant seem to remember and My 351 panther is no where near me currently.

      If i recall correctly there is no in tank filter either...just the dinky one located between the fuel line and the carb.

      Hope this at least helps a little.


      Originally posted by scottyB724 View Post
      Here's the background, car sputtered out and died on the way home from work. Won't turn over. Got it towed about a mile back to my house. We disconnected the fuel line near the carb, before the filter, and while cranking got zero gas coming out. So we put a new fuel pump on the engine, and still have the same problem.

      Now here's where I'm confused.
      It has 2 fuel lines going from the tank to the pump, and then one outlet line from the pump to the carb. I'm assuming it has 2 lines due to having the interceptor package in case one fails or for high speeds or something? It's not a return type system, unless I am mistaken? Can anyone confirm?

      Also, my dad seems to think there is an electric pump in the tank, but that makes absolutely no sense to me and every tech article I've read online and the chilton's manual from the library all have zero indication of an electric pump being in the tank for this particular vehicle. There is a 2 wire connector near where the 2 lines come out of the tank, but I would assume those are for the sending unit for the fuel gauge on the dash.
      Can anyone confirm?

      My next guess would be a collapsed line, although since it has 2 I kinda doubt it. One line is corroded near where it comes out of the tank, however it is bone dry and does not leak any gas. Idk if maybe it's sucking in air if that could cause this problem. Or maybe a clogged fuel pick-up sock thing in the tank.

      Any advice/suggestions ?
      -Phil

      sigpic

      +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

      +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry, wrong terminology. She cranks for days, so it's definitely fuel related.

        And yeah the gauge was reading low but not even on E yet, we thought maybe the sending unit might have taken a shit and that I was just out of gas, but we put about 4 gallons in, and still wont fire.

        Also, it will sort of fire up when we pour a bit of gas directly in the carb, so the problem should be something before the pump.
        Last edited by scottyB724; 10-15-2012, 05:55 PM.
        '87 Vic LTD

        Comment


          #5
          Assuming there is fuel in the tank, disconnect the lines at the tank, add a piece of hose leading into a safe fuel container. Crank motor and see if the car starts. Be carefull, with both fuel tanks, no sparks or flames or burning tobacco near the tank. Do not use incandesent/flourescent 120volt drop lights. Many fires have started with those.
          03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
          02 SL500 Silver Arrow
          08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
          08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

          Comment


            #6
            That's a good idea. I will definitely try that.
            '87 Vic LTD

            Comment


              #7
              and if by some chance that doesnt work, you A: May having something clogging the line in between the gas source and the pump or B: you may have received a defective pump.
              -Phil

              sigpic

              +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

              +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

              Comment


                #8
                The thought did cross my mind that maybe it's a bad pump out of the box, crazier things have happened I guess.
                '87 Vic LTD

                Comment


                  #9
                  Correct, but his will help you narrow it down.
                  03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
                  02 SL500 Silver Arrow
                  08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
                  08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

                  Comment


                    #10
                    +2 for the jerry can temporary tank. Just don't cheap out on hose and try to balance the open container on the fender...ask me how I know.

                    85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                    160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                    waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                    06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Do you have a variable venturi carb on this car, or a holley 2bbl or something else?





                      Also if you want to confirm that the carb is dry, just tweak the throttle or accelerator pump on the carb a couple times and look down the throat. It could be a passage in the carb is gunked up or something. If you have a variable venturi the easiest way to get visual confirmation is gently pushing the black plastic "slides" in the venturis back towards the firewall and then pushing the little black button that's on the top at the front of the carb with the linkage going to it. If there's no sound and sight of fuel squirting when you press that you know you have no fuel going to the carb as opposed to no fuel leaving the carb.


                      An alternative would be to remove the line to the carb, run a line to another safe container, and crank the engine. a 10 inch or so rubber hose should take only a few seconds to spurt gas into the container. This would singlehandedly rule out everything but the carburetor itself.

                      85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                      160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                      waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                      06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        first off put 5 gallons of fuel in the tank
                        if that dont work, could be the line is cracked or rotted thru or loose somewhere and the fuel pump is just sucking air

                        1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
                        2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
                        1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
                        1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
                        2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
                        1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

                        please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Popped the lines off at the tank, did the gas can trick. After quite a bit of pumping it fired right up and ran.

                          Now this has me second guessing if we pumped it up enough after putting the new fuel pump on initially, but I'm certain we tried to get it started for a good amount of time. I remember being with a buddy when he was starting his monte carlo for the first time after rebuilding everything, and it took less than a minute for fuel to get to the carb and to fire right up. But I think I'm just being hopeful my problem is solved hahah.

                          But I will find out tomorrow after I replace the small piece of brittle rubber line that got messed up while taking it off at the tank. We'll connect it back up and if it doesn't start I guess it's time to drop the tank, fun stuff.

                          Thanks a lot for the input, I'll be back with results tomorrow hopefully.
                          '87 Vic LTD

                          Comment


                            #14
                            How much gas is in tank?
                            03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
                            02 SL500 Silver Arrow
                            08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
                            08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I wouldn't worry about him not having enough gas in the tank. he said 4-5 gallons and I've re-started my vic after running out of gas using just over a gallon.

                              And yeah it took at least 40-50 seconds of cranking before it caught. Ideally you would replace ALL the questionable fuel lines, but I suspect you've found the problem here and just need to remember to crank the car longer if you ever do it again. Keep in mind it's a looooooooong car and the mechanical pump only pumps at a speed related to what the starter motor can spin it as. you've got a lot of line to fill, then a carb to also fill, before you get gas in the engine.

                              85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                              160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                              waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                              06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                              Comment

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