Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The 351W Long-Rod Thread of Doom.

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    Originally posted by Pirate View Post
    Howdy, gang.....

    I have some more 302 long-rod information handy.....and have located forged pistons for this setup.

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/feature....n=read&F_id=21

    Of interest is the KB747; it's for a stock stroke 302, with 5.4 rods. In addition, it produces 10.6:1 compression with 64 CC heads....with a little smoothing of the dome, this piston, coupled with a 5.4 rod, should let you get away with around 10:1 compression with either E7 heads, or regular GT40 units.
    Update: United Engine Machine, the makers of KB pistons, have re-done their website, and the forged long-rod pistons for the 302 are no longer listed. However, I don't know if they have been discontinued, or are merely still working on the site, as some links pop up with a 'still under construction' page....

    I'm working on finding a similar compression-height piston to use in its place, but I've only found one site that has had the KB747 piston still listed, and includes the compression height.

    More to follow later....

    Comment


      #47
      Update: Wayne's engines no longer sells the modified 400 long-rods. However, Speedomotive sells a long-rod rotating assembly for the 351W, AND 351C. The issue with the 351W kit is that it comes with Hypereutectic pistons, but after speaking with them, you are allowed to substitute 331 stroker forged units (same pin compression height).

      The 351C kit is actually pretty badass, as it includes a destroked 351C crank, down from 3.5" to 3.4", and with a .030 overbore, it becomes a 346" motor, with 6.250" rods vs. 5.755 (or whatever the stock 351C rod length is, it's around 5.7", just like small-block chevys). This would make a damn-nice motor to use with a set of 2V Aussie heads, or Edelbrock 351C 2V units, and makes an interesting alternative to a 347 stroker.

      If I didn't have engine brackets that needed the windsor-based equipment, I'd really love to build that long-rod Cleveland....but the other thing scaring me off is the stock Cleveland block; it has a nightmare of an oiling system, and you have to find one that isn't bored .030 over. Otherwise, it's a snappy engine....I know, I've owned a few Cleveland-powered cars, and built or worked on several others.

      More later.

      Comment


        #48
        Revisiting this thread.....

        I'm curious what a 351W long-rod motor (I'm still looking for an F4 351W block, there's a bare block at my NAPA machine shop, he's wanting to sell it, but I haven't gotten a price yet) would do with prepped P heads, long-tube headers, 10:1 compression, a Comp XE258HR cam, and EFI....I'm feeling really cheap right now.

        Comment


          #49
          http://capebreton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-v...AdIdZ216288624

          i'll buy it if you don't want it if it's useless, for 60 bucks I could use it as a coffee table, top gear style.

          is it useless?
          sigpic


          - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

          - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

          - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by The Auntie Christ View Post
            Revisiting this thread.....

            I'm curious what a 351W long-rod motor (I'm still looking for an F4 351W block, there's a bare block at my NAPA machine shop, he's wanting to sell it, but I haven't gotten a price yet) would do with prepped P heads, long-tube headers, 10:1 compression, a Comp XE258HR cam, and EFI....I'm feeling really cheap right now.


            From a thread your sworn personal enemies were posting in ...

            [Smokey Yunick] benefit[ted] from the longer rod because the cylinder heads of the day weren't as good as today. Meaning the longer rod helped limited flowing cylinder heads... Todays cylinder head designs are so much better that the long rod no longer beneficial
            Thoughts? If this is correct, it sounds in short like you're spot on doing long rods with factory heads, but at what point is the cost and hassle of the longrod parts more than that of good heads?
            2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by 1987cp View Post
              From a thread your sworn personal enemies were posting in ...

              Thoughts? If this is correct, it sounds in short like you're spot on doing long rods with factory heads, but at what point is the cost and hassle of the longrod parts more than that of good heads?
              No matter what I do, I'm going to have to do something with a short block, in that I don't have one. I can go with the long-rod rotating assembly, use my existing P heads, and shoot for 400/400 with this combo (optimistic)....which is around what a 2005-2006 GTO was putting out...and they're a blast to drive.

              Or....I build a 408, and spend an additional $1000-$1500, and get aluminum heads, along with a bigger intake....and make around 500/500....and have trouble getting it to hook up.

              If I go the 351w-based block route....these are my two options. To be honest the 'smooth' option of the long-rod motor looks great right now (not to mention it's cheaper, and the car won't exactly be slow with the 351W), however, the nasty 408W also looks like a winnah....

              And then of course, I see this:

              Last edited by ; 07-14-2010, 01:05 PM.

              Comment


                #52
                any news on the long rod 302 pistons

                Comment


                  #53
                  would a federal mogul zh146cl work? my bad found out it needs to be for a 3" stroke
                  Last edited by import convert; 08-17-2010, 12:30 AM.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    I know this thread has been dead for quite a while, but I am curious as to where you buy a 351w long rod kit at now? All of the previous links are no longer working, and when I google it, I find nothing except talk about it being done. JUst wondering, thanks.

                    Blane
                    85' Crown Vic 2dr. Small tire stock block grudge car.
                    09 CTS-V family car making over 700whp with ease.
                    79 f350 427 ls7 swapped with th400. Prerunner setup
                    64 c30 dually. Slammed and turbo 5.3 with 4l80e

                    Comment


                      #55
                      There are those who say not to worry about rod length .... (see my previous post or two)


                      For shortblocks and parts, you might try www.fordstrokers.com.
                      Last edited by 1987cp; 07-25-2011, 08:03 AM.
                      2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                      Comment


                        #56
                        am I missing something or does this just a way to net a little gain in compression ratio and add a tad of rotating mass?
                        Finally have an on the books porting/custom fab business!
                        HO bottom end,GT40Ps,cut/welded/ported upper+lower GT40 intakes,Comp XE258 cam,MS3X megasquirt computer,8 LS2 coils,2 dry systems + a 3rd wet,3 core rad w fans..1100hp Lentech WR AOD,custom 4" aluminum/moly Dshaft,custom rear/back half chassis adjustable 4link,wilwood 4 piston,moser 9" axles,locker, M/T 30x12's,4 staged fuel pumps,100lbs sound insulation,power/remote everything,2000W sound.4480lbs. 4.5s 0-60,12.8 1/4

                        Comment


                          #57
                          You are missing something...

                          Comment


                            #58
                            very familiar with the physics behind a longrod, I even built 1 for a guy dead set on it, and they are a waste of time and money... just like everyones opinion that has seriously built 1 and measured the gains (not just saying it revs quicker)... the reason they work best with shatty flowing heads is because its a modification that works against flowing more air through the motor at the benefit of netting a small gain in compression ceiling... decreasing piston speed at the top of the stroke helps timing/compression limits very little, but the reduced pressure wave hurts exhaust flow significantly and intake flow is hurt with slower piston speeds in the beginning of the stroke.
                            It's a very very small gain in net (usable ceiling) compression/ timing as the longrods physics allowing more compression benefits exponentially based on rpm only... detonation suseptability peaks at peak VE (peak tq), where longrods benefits are not yet available. Doesn't matter how high you increase compression availability above max VE if it doesn't increase at peak VE. Gains on the adready good 302 are around 1/4 comp point and 2* timing... new piston designs will out do that without hurting the engines flow potentials (hp)
                            The rotating assembly is no more efficient, yes acceleration is decreased at the top and bottom of strokes, but increased in the mid stroke (piston still travels the same distance in the same amount of time) so all the ballence/faster revving comments are just like the 3" exhaust tips adding a little more passing power lol.
                            Ford made the windsors as longrods to start with, adding a few 10ths of an inch changes the numbers 1-2% depending on if you go to "crazy long" chevy rod work.
                            Finally have an on the books porting/custom fab business!
                            HO bottom end,GT40Ps,cut/welded/ported upper+lower GT40 intakes,Comp XE258 cam,MS3X megasquirt computer,8 LS2 coils,2 dry systems + a 3rd wet,3 core rad w fans..1100hp Lentech WR AOD,custom 4" aluminum/moly Dshaft,custom rear/back half chassis adjustable 4link,wilwood 4 piston,moser 9" axles,locker, M/T 30x12's,4 staged fuel pumps,100lbs sound insulation,power/remote everything,2000W sound.4480lbs. 4.5s 0-60,12.8 1/4

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X