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Lopo cam and ECU with heads + intake + headers? Is this doable, or disaster?

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  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
    someone probably sells a universal fit harness for this kind of thing, but thats a bit like buying one size fits all underwear. Nothing is exactly where you want it to be.
    Right right. As long as my harness is good and I take care of the salt and pepper shakers then we're golden.

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  • gadget73
    replied
    someone probably sells a universal fit harness for this kind of thing, but thats a bit like buying one size fits all underwear. Nothing is exactly where you want it to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
    When I pulled my ECM to install the Quarterhorse I found the caps were leaking and dumping corrosive crap on the board, so I certainly get the appeal of "new, with warranty" rather than dealing with stuff that will be increasingly prone to failure from age.

    still think it would be an easier sell if it was cheap, but its just not anymore. Maybe I should delve into an MS system. Would be interesting to see what, if anything, could be gotten out of a dead stock high mileage engine. If I did that on the Mark VII though, it would have to run the cruise control and have proper output to the tripminder or its a no-go. Towncar doesn't have digital dash or integrated cruise.
    Thant's what I'm thinking. That way all the guts of the ECU are new and have a warranty and support for them. I'd love a new wiring harness, but mine's in good shape, so I can't be too upset this time around.

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  • gadget73
    replied
    When I pulled my ECM to install the Quarterhorse I found the caps were leaking and dumping corrosive crap on the board, so I certainly get the appeal of "new, with warranty" rather than dealing with stuff that will be increasingly prone to failure from age.

    still think it would be an easier sell if it was cheap, but its just not anymore. Maybe I should delve into an MS system. Would be interesting to see what, if anything, could be gotten out of a dead stock high mileage engine. If I did that on the Mark VII though, it would have to run the cruise control and have proper output to the tripminder or its a no-go. Towncar doesn't have digital dash or integrated cruise.

    Leave a comment:


  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
    properly tuned, there is really nothing wrong with speed-density. The specific ailment most of us here have is that it isn't tuned for what we need and most of the tuners that do EEC-IV don't mess with SD stuff. Mustangs, which are the only Ford anyone knows about, existed in speed-density form for 3 years and most of those were probably converted a long time ago so thats all anyone knows.

    MS and other non-OEM solutions are probably the sensible way to go anymore. All of the Ford shit is 25+ years old at this point and the prices are getting stupid. The electronics are ailing and the hardware itself has the limits of 1980s tech. When you could buy the ECM for 50 bucks and splice in a couple wires this was a no-brainer but now when a good used ECM is 200+ its not such an appealing thing.
    Honestly, I had first looked at the Quarterhorse as an option a couple months ago. But the price of an H.O. ECU and then a Quarterhorse on top of that was just not worth it to me for the option of buying something brand new with a warranty.
    If I ever end up going with a different ECU somewhere down the line I'll spend the money on a Pro M. I just didn't want to spend more on the ECU alone than what I have in every other part on the car, plus the initial purchase of the car itself at this point. My wiring harness hasn't been messed with besides the alternator, which I upgraded to a 3g now, so it's of no concern, and the salt and pepper shakers seem to not be giving any problems right now. So, that's the main reason I opted for the Megasquirt, as it doesn't come with a new harness.

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  • gadget73
    replied
    properly tuned, there is really nothing wrong with speed-density. The specific ailment most of us here have is that it isn't tuned for what we need and most of the tuners that do EEC-IV don't mess with SD stuff. Mustangs, which are the only Ford anyone knows about, existed in speed-density form for 3 years and most of those were probably converted a long time ago so thats all anyone knows.

    MS and other non-OEM solutions are probably the sensible way to go anymore. All of the Ford shit is 25+ years old at this point and the prices are getting stupid. The electronics are ailing and the hardware itself has the limits of 1980s tech. When you could buy the ECM for 50 bucks and splice in a couple wires this was a no-brainer but now when a good used ECM is 200+ its not such an appealing thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by 86VickyLX View Post

    No.

    There is nothing that the stock ecu can compensate for. And you're not utilizing the heads or intake to even a fraction of their potential. MAF swap it, 24lb injectors (at least) A tune, and a nice Extreme energy or trickflow cam will be a nice set up. Or go with an aftermarket fuel injection system if you don't fancy the MAF mustang ecu. Or carb it. But the cam is useless.
    Ended up ordering a Megasquirt, a Lunati cam similar to the specs that Gaget73 is running in his H.O. a new timing set + lifters and some other goodies. May be about to get some 30lb injectors as well. That way I can ditch the explorer injectors I was going to use.

    I realize I wouldn't be using any of the parts to their full potential with my initial question, I just wanted to know if it would work without running mad lean and breaking stuff.

    I will need a wideband O2 sensor to fully take advantage of the Megasquirt of course. But it can run on the stock narrow band(s). I have a guy that will be able to get me in for a dyno tune after it's all put together.

    The Megasquirt does keep me speed density, but like I said, it'll get a dyno tune, and I'll be paying the money for that. But I should be able to get it running and driveable before that.
    If I purchase tuner studio it does have a "self learning" feature like the Holley Terminator X does.

    However, I'll be converting a Miata I have to speed density when I eventually get the plug n play ECU I want for it, and it's one that works with Tuner Studio as well. So it made sense to go with that option, after I did some heavy research the past week.

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  • 86VickyLX
    replied

    No.

    There is nothing that the stock ecu can compensate for. And you're not utilizing the heads or intake to even a fraction of their potential. MAF swap it, 24lb injectors (at least) A tune, and a nice Extreme energy or trickflow cam will be a nice set up. Or go with an aftermarket fuel injection system if you don't fancy the MAF mustang ecu. Or carb it. But the cam is useless.
    Last edited by 86VickyLX; 04-08-2021, 11:52 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • gadget73
    replied
    Originally posted by bgreywolf View Post
    Despite the dishing on the LoPo cam, it tends to pull nicely with a trailer. I'm not sure most of the HO cams would start off as smoothly with a ton and a half of wood pellets and trailer in tow.
    .

    The HO cam has garbage low end torque. It was really engineered for a car a half ton lighter and with a 5 speed. Its not an amazing match with the low stall AOD, and its really a shit match in a 2 ton barge with an AOD and highway gears.

    A good "drop-in" cam is actually the Explorer cam. Similar power profile to the lopo, but with a little more high rpm ability and more lift. Still done by 4600 but that works fine with the stock governor and gearing.

    problem with all of this stuff is the ability of the ECM to understand and deal with the extra air flow. I had lean running problems with an Explorer cam, ported E7 iron heads and an un-touched Explorer intake on my car with a Mark VIi ECM. That combo moved enough air more than a stock HO that it didn't work well.

    Leave a comment:


  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by Lutrova View Post
    Not to hijack the thread, but I'm curious about the inverse to this question. How far can you go with stock LoPo cam and ECU? Suppose the goal was to build power in low to mid RPMs, or to add some oomph without tanking fuel economy?
    Originally posted by bgreywolf View Post
    Despite the dishing on the LoPo cam, it tends to pull nicely with a trailer. I'm not sure most of the HO cams would start off as smoothly with a ton and a half of wood pellets and trailer in tow.
    On my car, I've changed the upper intake and throttle body to HO, and gone through the sensors/plugs/wires/vacuum lines in stock configuration (except smog pump and associated plumbing). I kept EGR.
    The exhaust manifolds were changed for the 90s Lincoln log manifolds which flow a bit better than the 1986 stock manifolds.

    The car runs great, and I get 22-24mpg for the most part in mixed driving. I think going from 2.73s to 3.55s will do more for my oomph (and possibly fuel economy, as I live in hilly territory and I can only get into OD on a couple flat highway stretches; I'm mostly driving around town) than engine building.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I like the Lopo and if it had a carburetor on in I'd have already put my AFR heads with some headers on it with a good 4bbl/intake with no cam swap consideration yet.
    My water pump started losing a lot of water while the speedo was wrapped as far under as it physically can go, as it has been several times, the Lopo with 3.27 gears pulls surprisingly hard, especially for as much as people rag on them.

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  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
    If you're changing the heads already I don't see how also swapping the cam suddenly turns it into a 2k project.

    or just change the water pump and leave the rest of it alone.
    Cam, timing set, ECU, headers. Purchases I've been delaying or scouring FB marketplace for. And a $200 radiator, a trans cooler setup so I don't end up cooking the trans later on.

    So, it's more of me estimating high and expecting something to not go smoothly. As that tends to be my luck when playing with my own cars.

    However, having seen your video of pre and post cam 0-60 pulls, what do you have done to your trans Gadget? Because while it's only like $100 and change for the Baumann stuff, I don't know what my other good or valid options are.

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  • bgreywolf
    replied
    Despite the dishing on the LoPo cam, it tends to pull nicely with a trailer. I'm not sure most of the HO cams would start off as smoothly with a ton and a half of wood pellets and trailer in tow.
    On my car, I've changed the upper intake and throttle body to HO, and gone through the sensors/plugs/wires/vacuum lines in stock configuration (except smog pump and associated plumbing). I kept EGR.
    The exhaust manifolds were changed for the 90s Lincoln log manifolds which flow a bit better than the 1986 stock manifolds.

    The car runs great, and I get 22-24mpg for the most part in mixed driving. I think going from 2.73s to 3.55s will do more for my oomph (and possibly fuel economy, as I live in hilly territory and I can only get into OD on a couple flat highway stretches; I'm mostly driving around town) than engine building.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lutrova
    replied
    Not to hijack the thread, but I'm curious about the inverse to this question. How far can you go with stock LoPo cam and ECU? Suppose the goal was to build power in low to mid RPMs, or to add some oomph without tanking fuel economy?

    Leave a comment:


  • gadget73
    replied
    If you're changing the heads already I don't see how also swapping the cam suddenly turns it into a 2k project.

    or just change the water pump and leave the rest of it alone.

    Leave a comment:


  • AngryMcMuffin
    replied
    Originally posted by Arquemann View Post
    It only becomes that if you make it so. You could just change your water pump and wait until you've got all the pieces of the puzzle for an engine build. It's only work.
    If you don't mind having your car apart while you gather the last pieces, go ahead. It seems you're pretty set on what you still need/want. The summer season is only starting and if your car doesn't sit outside with the heads off it'll be fine!
    I do have three other cars sitting in my driveway that start and run every time I ask them to. So it's more of an annoyance with it than it is an actual inconvenience. Wanted to do the 5.3 swap in my 72 Chevy C10 before I did this one. But, the 307 SBC is very loyal, so I guess I can't be upset.

    I'd drive the Mercury over to my shop and take it apart there after I have all the rest of the parts in. So it could still be moved around if it needed to be. Then take one or two weeks and tear down/rebuild.

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